Talk:Jonny Otto

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On 23 January 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved from Jonny (footballer) to Jonny (footballer, born 1994). The result of the discussion was moved.

Requested move 3 April 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (non-admin closure) Calidum 04:36, 13 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Jonny (footballer) → Jonny Otto – Jonny doesn't even go to a disambiguation page, and it's hard to work out where other Jonny's are. The name is not in keeping with WP:COMMONNAME, most news and media outlets, majority use Jonny Otto, a lot use Jonny Castro Otto. Govvy (talk) 09:39, 3 April 2019 (UTC) --Relisting. Dreamy Jazz 🎷 ^{talk to me | my contributions} 15:05, 10 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page moves. Giant Snowman 09:58, 3 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comment @Govvy: please can you provide sources showing the use? Giant Snowman 10:28, 3 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Reply @GiantSnowman: a simple google search, for Jonny will bring the wikipedia page up first, but not much other results, then type in Jonny Otto in to the search engine and you get much better results, hence Jonny is not a Common name. Govvy (talk) 10:40, 3 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Not helpful! Giant Snowman 11:03, 3 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Move to Jonny Castro per Wolves press. In ictu oculi (talk) 10:36, 3 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Reply It should be either Jonny Otto or Jonny Castro Otto per WP:COMMONNAME. Govvy (talk) 10:40, 3 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

That was local press not website, but by website move to Wolves you're right. Okay, convinced Support as proposed. In ictu oculi (talk) 18:03, 3 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose - called 'Castro Otto' by BBC and 'Jonny Castro Otto', 'Otto' and 'Jonny' (the latter most often from what I can see) by Wolves. Nominator has not provided evidence of the proposed new location as the clear COMMONNAME. As such, leave it where it is. Giant Snowman 11:03, 3 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Reply @GiantSnowman: But you just destroyed your own logic, the Wolves profile clearly say Jonny Otto at the top, not Jonny on it's own. In prose they use Otto there, next BBC are using Castro Otto, per their surname convention, they haven't used Jonny at all there, thus busting any logical use of Common name for being Jonny. Govvy (talk) 11:10, 3 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

No I haven't. The most frequent use on the Wolves page is just 'Jonny'. Giant Snowman 11:17, 3 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Sure on any royals page the most frequent use is 'Kate' and 'Meghan' ... not sure frequency is an argument against use of either surname or matronym. In ictu oculi (talk) 07:26, 4 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Usually Spanish footballers have their surnames on the lineups in the Premier League as their paternal names (such as e.g. Cesar Azpilicueta who is not referred to by Chelsea F.C. and the neutral papers as "Cesar Tanco"). Also Soccerbase refers to him as 'Jonny' while Soccerway refers as Jonny Castro. They don't call the player Jonny Otto. Iggy (Swan) 20:13, 3 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 23 January 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. Consensus to move to Jonny Otto, although no consensus on what to do with the resulting redirect as that question received minimal discussion. (closed by non-admin page mover) BilledMammal (talk) 12:08, 10 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Jonny (footballer) → Jonny (footballer, born 1994) – There are multiple players with their names being "Jony", "Johnny" or the sole "Jonny" thus far. Given they are pronounced similar, it may make sense that Jonny (footballer) may be an example from R from incomplete disambiguation and thus disambiguate this to YOB, as Jony (footballer, born 1985) is Spanish as well. Iggy (Swan) (Contribs) 20:55, 23 January 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. BilledMammal (talk) 02:23, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per WP:SMALLDETAILS. The spelling is different and we prefer WP:NATURALDIS, therefore it should just remain at the current title with hatnotes to help with reader confusion. As far as I can see this is the only footballer with the spelling of Jonny. cookie monster 755 02:50, 24 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page moves. Giant Snowman 19:33, 24 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose and instead move to Jonny Otto which appears to be more widely used in English-language media. Giant Snowman 19:37, 24 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose I argued last time it should be moved to Jonny Otto and that still isn't done. Govvy (talk) 09:27, 25 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Seems like a more likely destination given English media name him as "Jonny Otto": BBC, The Athletic, Sky Sports. While the typical formatting of news articles usually list people by just one part of their full names, in recent sources the first instance of this players name call him with Otto included. What I said in the other RM discussion nearly 5 years ago now seems wrong about naming him as Jonny Castro. Iggy (Swan) (Contribs) 17:43, 25 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose WP:COMMONNAME is pretty clear that in cases such as this one, the consensus name used in the media takes precedence. In this case specifically, the English language sources for this article use a very consistent naming scheme of "Jonny Otto". Given that this is a consensus across English sources and some other language ones, and this is English Wikipedia, that seems to be the appropriate move should one be made. Note: I see a lot of voters here opposing and favoring the name "Jonny Otto". But, I see those same users lamenting that it will not occur. I contend that someone ought to 'be bold' and WP:JUSTDOIT. If you consider a move discussion unlikely to occur by other editors initiating it, be the one that steps forward and takes the necessary steps to reverse the 3 April decision via talk pages and standard channels. Be the one to gather sources which prove your point unequivocally and make your case. Dionysius Miller^talk 18:38, 8 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose to move to "Jonny Otto"; even tough this will likely fall again on deaf ears, i'll offer my two cents nonetheless: this is a NAME/NICKNAME compound, please leave name as "Jonny" (with or without year for disambiguation purposes).

Having just checked his article's talkpage, i'm surprised still no one proposed to move Isco to "Isco Alarcón", it happened in 2011 with people requesting Nani be moved to "Luís Nani", luckily it was not accepted... --RevampedEditor (talk) 07:11, 26 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reply @RevampedEditor: Except Jonny Otto is the WP:COMMONNAME and he doesn't refer to himself simply as Jonny, it is Jonny Otto and he has Otto on the back of his shirt. [1], He is not using the same naming convention himself as others have. Govvy (talk) 12:25, 26 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the tip/ping! I see, but check this out as an (hopefully) example: Guti spent a whole season with "Guti HAZ" on the back of his shirt in honour of his children (here https://www.marca.com/2011/10/20/futbol/1319105638.html) :) In the shirt department curios, don't get me started on this guy (https://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-jim-weber/hate-finding-loves-acting--nfl.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAADEmyHH-vWtjwMSvJUSYW9-NCuPJC3NWFacnvRk66y_Lb7OHD5uwaHg0rXC73a104iIHSER73Uj4wgg7p0XTycXdABvBBLowI5YH8g-SoLIftIlN7WZwK5nzm1Eo2RenOmmv1Q1PU-ZwdO-lVswqGk6B1y-uuXRnpodFtdyloOH_)...

Whatever the outcome is here, i will abide by it of course. --RevampedEditor (talk) 12:32, 26 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisting comment: Seeing a rough consensus to move this to Jonny Otto; relisting to allow for more discussion BilledMammal (talk) 02:23, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support per nom and oppose move to Jonny Otto. As far as I can see, he is mostly referred to in the media simply as Jonny. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:50, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I'm not opposed to moving this to Jonny Castro, Jonny Otto or even Jonny Castro Otto per NATURAL, as they are all variations of names used for the player in English and Spanish sources.--Ortizesp (talk) 18:24, 7 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Strongly oppose move/the above comment, are we going to go down the "Isco Alarcón", "Pedro Pauleta" (i.e. the Portuguese media still refer to him in this nonsensical way nowadays!) or "Ricardo Kaká" path again? Leave as it is or insert the year if need be (i.e. "Jonny (footballer, born 1994)"), that should satisfy. --RevampedEditor (talk) 04:08, 8 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- I also oppose the change, however, I support Jonathan Otto as a better alternative. WikiHmmmm... (talk) 18:41, 8 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.